The Defnics started out as No Dogs. It was Jim, Brandon and I with the addition of a new friend Bill DeGidio (R. Conn). We met Bill through Mark Vocca who worked with Brandon. Bill and Mark were baseball and fishing buddies. It was Mark's idea to set Bill up with us. I don't really remember the details but he did it. There is a "studio" tape of No Dogs recorded in downtown Willoughby at a storefront we practiced at for a minute.